« Be a man and take it on the chin | Main | Man of the future »

February 01, 2008

Comments

robertdfeinman

All I see from the fancy mathematics is that using countries as a sample provides too broad a collection.

Within any given society there are groups who differ greatly in the type of lives they live. Lumping a family who shops at Walmart with the Waltons who own it is meaningless. One has an annual income of about $25K and the other about $1.4 billion.

Similar distinctions should be made on the basis of other demographic factors (I did see some discussion of age), but health, education, class standing and ethnic group (minority or majority) all are factors.

I'm sure Mugabe is very content even while the rest of the population is under duress.

You cannot extract good conclusions from a poorly designed poll.

Per Kurowski

Just a typical case of response bias. In a poor country you cannot afford as much to say that you are happy and you must weigh your answer more carefully…who knows? You might be questioned by a donor!

Paul Russell

Dr. Rodrik, do you consider self-reported "happiness" a reliable indicator of happiness? Personally, I question our ability to know our true happiness.

Biomed Tim

Kahneman in Edge:

"The most dramatic result is that when the entire range of human living standards is considered, the effects of income on a measure of life satisfaction (the "ladder of life") are not small at all. We had thought income effects are small because we were looking within countries. The GDP differences between countries are enormous, and highly predictive of differences in life satisfaction. In a sample of over 130,000 people from 126 countries, the correlation between the life satisfaction of individuals and the GDP of the country in which they live was over .40 – an exceptionally high value in social science. Humans everywhere, from Norway to Sierra Leone, apparently evaluate their life by a common standard of material prosperity, which changes as GDP increases. The implied conclusion, that citizens of different countries do not adapt to their level of prosperity, flies against everything we thought we knew ten years ago. We have been wrong and now we know it. I suppose this means that there is a science of well-being, even if we are not doing it very well."

Per Kurowski

It might also be that while they are less happy they are also less sad since the time and resources to even reflect on such issues might vary with the GDP

If so the indifference to happiness and sadness must be one of the most tragic faces of poverty.

stedy

cultural background may plays a very important role rather than economic factors...

Doug K

"Elinor, for shame!" said Marianne, "money can only
give happiness where there is nothing else to give it.
Beyond a competence, it can afford no real satisfaction,
as far as mere self is concerned."

"Perhaps," said Elinor, smiling, "we may come
to the same point. YOUR competence and MY wealth
are very much alike, I dare say; and without them,
as the world goes now, we shall both agree that every
kind of external comfort must be wanting. Your ideas
are only more noble than mine. Come, what is your competence?"

"About eighteen hundred or two thousand a year;
not more than THAT."

Elinor laughed. "TWO thousand a year! ONE is my
wealth! I guessed how it would end."

**

it's tough to be happy, shivering and hungry.. we all need a competence.

Winston

In order to ascertain why happiness increases with income, it is necessary to ascertain the causes of happiness and whether those causes are positively related to income.

A popular view seems to be that happiness is the result of one's expectations being met. If that is true, then perhaps globalization has raised the expectations of people in the developing world to levels that cannot possibly be met given their scant material resources. The result? Less happiness.

"The romantic idea of the poor but happy peasant" might have been somewhat accurate in the past, but now, in this era of cross-cultural communication, even the poorest peasants have some idea of what they are "missing out on."

"Familiarity breeds contempt," as the saying goes.

minny mouse

Very different than the time series evidence within the U.S.

inthemachine

While per capita income is often used as a proxy for overall physical well being, it might be illuminating to break this out and see how "happiness" stacks up against a variety of human development outcomes and/or weather patterns. The arctic circle is not exactly known as a "happy place" regardless of income level.

terence

To me, the interesting (and intuitive) thing about this graph is that diminishing returns kick in. Somewhere around Mexico.

Thorstein Veblen

The problem is that we should be looking at panel-data -- otherwise this confuses correlation and causality. If you look at just time series data, you won't see this effect at all. In other words, looking at just American happiness surveys, you see no clear trend, even though the US is much richer today than it was 50 years ago (with political rights much more widespread). In japan, you see a decline in happiness with their dramatic increase in wealth. The key point is that the developing world "knows" its not as wealthy as the US, since they can all easily watch hollywood movies starring blond models they can't date driving cars they can't afford... Also, since we certainly have time series data for the US, Japan, and many other rich countries, why didn't the authors just include it in the graph? The answer, of course, is that it would overturn their result.

If time series data were also to show an increase in happiness, then Kahneman's conclusion would be justified... He should be made to cough up his Nobel for such silliness...

anonymous

Finally, a compelling reason to fight poverty!

hari

Ignorance is BLISS!

hari

Ignorance is BLISS!

Carolyn Kay

How does this study compare with the 2004 Association for Psychological Science study that found, "Wealth Does Not Create Individual Happiness
and it Doesn't Build a Strong Country, Either"?
http://www.psychologicalscience.org/media/releases/2004/pr040927.cfm

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

wjd123

Let's say we wanted to design a society in which most people could best fulfill their interests. A utilitarian society. We would know how well we succeeded by measuring the attachment people had to society. This is a sociological question and requires a sociological answer. In other words we don't go looking for the answer to social attachment in psychological facts or economic facts but sociological ones.

Fortunately, these are hard facts that can be measured objectively. The suicide rate and the rate of law breaking, for instance, would provide measurements for how well the social conditions under which we live our lives are adding to our happiness.

One could expect that, relative speaking, the more people experience the conditions of their social lives as a boon the more attachment they would have to the society in which they live. Greater attachment would be an indicator that people are more likely to find that society benefits them by adding to their ability to fulfill their interests rather than being a hindrance.

One of the ways we could measure attachment would be how well people follow the laws of their society. If people are so poor that they can't follow the laws of society they would experience society as an unnecessary burden and would feel less attachment to it. If people are so rich that they no longer feel bound by the laws of society they would also experience society as a unnecessary burden and their attachment to society would be weak.

These disconnects would make for a society that didn't work in creating an institutional environment in which most people could fulfill their interests.

Under these conditions one could then ask the economist to design a system of taxation that would attach people to society. One were the poor would have the wherewithal to follow the law, thus increasing their attachment to society, and the rich not enough wherewithal to escape such attachment.

One would think, relatively speaking, that the ability of individuals to benefit from society to the fullest extent would allow them to see society as a handmaid for them to fulfill their interests rather than than see it as a stumbleing block to fulfillment.

Society as a handmaid would, relatively speaking, add to the individuals feeling of well-being. This in turn would would show up on psychological testing about subjective happiness.

NSF

There are cultural differences that dictate emotional responses and happiness is an emotional response. Pakis belong to a religion that imposes a fatalistic attitude. If it is to be, it is to be. Take this survey of pakistanis to northern pakistan (the kashmir region) where they are miserable and your responses will be different.

Ken Houghton

"diminishing returns kick in. Somewhere around Mexico."

Not the first time that has happened.

To no one's great surprise (I trust), the highest curve matched with the oldest people, who are happy to have survived that long.

The second highest matches with the youngest set, who are too young to have been beaten down by work and/or marriage.

If Deaton didn't, I may have to point this data against the average life expectancy per county, just to see if that affects the levels.

Ali Sohail

NSF wrote: 'Pakis belong to a religion that imposes a fatalistic attitude. If it is to be, it is to be. Take this survey of pakistanis to northern pakistan (the kashmir region) where they are miserable and your responses will be different.'

lol- unbelievable! such powerful words and little understanding!

and we feel illiteracy is a problem, your ignorance takes the cake my friend!

Barkley Rosser

Regarding Mexico, I note that in general, Central American countries are among those in these cross-section studies that are poor but come out pretty high on happiness.

The criticism of Kahnemann is all too valid, and I find the willingness of a lot of media to trumpet these recent cross-section studies as somehow proving that greater income means more happiness to be really disreputable. It is not just the US and Japan, but pretty much every country that longer time series are available for: happiness has not risen with income over time (the US maxed out on reported happiness back in 1956).

This means that whatever pattern we are seeing now across countries has been largely in place for a long time, including predating the spread of television. I would offer as an alternative pride in national status and power. Richer countries are stronger militarily and politically than poorer ones, and indeed prior to a half century ago, were often ruling many of those poorer ones. So, these cross-country comparisons may have much more to do with the standing of nations in the world order than with income per se, and even before TV, people had a pretty good idea where their country stood, especially if they were being ruled by a foreign power.

Per Kurowski

As I am not a hardened PhD, so much talk of happiness brings tears to my eyes!

Etienne Calame

seems good news for governments of the west, could tell us "see, you are happy, isn't this enough?". I doubt about polls and surveys designed on western criteria, the way to describe happiness is not the same in all culture therefore results are difficult to compare (even Italian and German are not “happy” the same way!). One can not measure all and I am not sure the aim of economics is to make people happy.

Per Kurowski

“I am not sure the aim of economics is to make people happy”

Posted by: Etienne Calame | February 04, 2008 at 08:21 AM

Well that is a challenging question…are the economists somehow biased in favor of happiness?

Frank

I am moving to Brazil, there you get the most happiness for your bang.

Dominic

Everyone should note that this shows self perceived happiness against national GDP, not happiness against personal income.

The conclusion has to be that the wealth of your society has a significant benefit to the way people perceive their own lots.

Anyone who has spent a lot of time in developing countries should be able to understand how the wealth (or lack there-of) of others in society has a major impact on your own experience. In a place where most people are poor, you have to put up with terrible facilities, poor cleanliness, crowds, red-tape and a whole host of things which just make you angry.

Having spent a lot of time in China, I can attest that I tend to be on edge while I'm there, even though I love the place. When I come home (to Aus) I'm much less stressed and generally more happy, although a little more bored. And this, despite my real personal wealth being much higher while I'm in China!

Aqdas Afzal (Pakistan)

Dani Rodrik: "And Pakistanis are significantly happier than either. One wonders what they are on."

Dani you have asked a pertinent question. Why should Pakistanis be happy given the current situation in the country with very high inflation, suicide attacks, no job creation, power and food cirses to name a few.

A few explanations come to mind:

I wonder when was this Gallup poll taken. Less than a year ago things weren't really so bad, here.

Still, I don't think Pakistanis are that happy as a nation, which seems to cast a very dark cloud over the research presented here. But wait.

Actually, survey techniques are really very poor here in Pakistan. Since I have conducted a few market related surveys, I can tell you that as far as the surveyors are concerned there is a lot of corner-cutting with almost no back checking by the supervisors.

The fundamental reason for this is that surveyors are paid very poorly and it is really very, very hard to work long hours in the extreme weather (too cold in winter and too, too hot in summer)when one is being paid peanuts.

Perhaps, should treat Pakistan as an outlier for this research.

Holger Siebrecht

I didn't follow NSF's point about the highest curve. That dpeends where on the x-axis you are.

But I _do_ find it interesting that older people don't seem to exhibit the same concavity (i.e. diminishing marginal returns) as younger people.

jaleel

Well... things are a lot cheaper out here in India.. and perhaps even cheaper in China...

Besides, there is this thing of lifestyles... maybe the Chinese have more elaborate needs and wants, while Indians have maybe elaborate but lower costing needs and wants...

Sanjay S

I think the poster "Frank" has it right inadvertently -- what the graph shows really is where you get the most happiness for you buck. Rest else is relative.

Bollywood celebrities

Nice Article if you wanna read more please check this http://sexybollywoodcelebrities.blogspot.com/

research paper writing

Well, I have been reading your blog posts daily and the reason I come on your blog frequently is its compelling content… Regards…

rolex watches

People usually say :"Seeing is believing." http://www.tt88times.com
Each attempt has a corresponding gain, in part or obvious, or vague. At least we have the kind of satisfaction After I bought this watch ,in a sense,it means a great deal to me. http://www.fashionhairfu.com

jordan shoes

I am happy to find this post very useful for me, as it contains lot of information. I always prefer to read the quality content and this thing I found in you post. Thanks for sharing.

jordan shoes for sale

I think this is a great post. One thing that I find the most helpful is number five. Sometimes when I write, I just let the flow of the words and information come out so much that I loose the purpose. It’s only after editing when I realize what I’ve done. There’s defiantly a lot of great tips here I’m going to try to be more aware of.

jordan shoes

I’ve seen progression in every post. Your newer posts are simply wonderful compared to your posts in the past. Keep up the good work!

VRS

One can not measure all and I am not sure the aim of economics is to make people happy.

jackets


French unions 23 launched a nationwide strike in the second month, [b][url=http://www.monclerlife.com/]Moncler jackets[/url] [/b]290 million people took to the streets to protest against the government intends to push the retirement system reform. Because of air [b][url=http://www.monclerlife.com/]moncler coats[/url][/b] transport operators are also involved in Paris Charles DE gaulle airport, [b][url=http://www.monclerlife.com/]moncler sale[/url] [/b]estimation and ollie airport yesterday 40% and 50% of the flights are cancelled, other airport also can maintain 60% flights. [b][url=http://www.monclerlife.com/]Moncler[/url] [/b]Union estimated 2.5 million in December 7, is expected to strike the number 23 strike than last time, France has a protest rally, traffic 231, more than half the train service, [url=http://www.monclerlife.com/][b]Moncler jackets sale[/b][/url] but the connection of Britain and France eurostar service, maintain the normal. The BBC reports, the big strike over to Paris public transportation. Paris metro line, there are 16 during the morning go to work in the 23rd, [b][url=http://www.monclerlife.com/moncler-jackets-men-c-9.html]Moncler jackets Men[/url] [/b]?Paris metro only five runs normally. From the game, inter are not a real sense of team. It is udinese performed very well in the match, the winner of the grand slam season, to make a lot of trouble, let the nerazzurri defence under moncler coats test. Udinese’s biggest mistake is not to grasp the opportunities created itself. Regardless of how the game, because it was the first home game of the season, the inter fans to Spanish benitez says a maximum support. The huge banners north bank is Spanish. [url=http://www.monclerlife.com/moncler-quincy-women-down-jackets-black-p-87.html][b]moncler jackets women black[/b][/url] Many people still remember, it is with rafa benitez at Liverpool in Istanbul was reversed the AC milan.

Account Deleted

We shall would say which in turn ourselves: if she wears Christian Louboutin wedges sandals, louboutin will likely to be greater. Yes, by working with Christian Louboutin shoes shoes, everything may viable.

Account Deleted

raf

Thanks for article.

Ohioguide

Even if I don't always agree with your posts, I always appreciate reading them. Columbus Hotels

consultsoft

I want to start by telling you that you have to be a very dedicated person with a full driving force to Websites for sale present in detail the program that you did. It was a great session and beautifully presented Turnkey Websites . Again, thank you for your presentation and my undying respect.

Dulcemx

Start by telling you that you have to be a very dedicated person with a full driving force.Como bajar dE peso

Account Deleted

The implied conclusion, that citizens of different countries do not adapt to their level of prosperity, flies against everything we thought we knew ten years ago.Wholesale Beads

Account Deleted

thank you very much

celikraf

Account Deleted

Loved the article. Will definetly use some pointers given there. Twitter is an excellent tool for bloggers.pandora charms

Account Deleted

Raf
raf

Thanks .. I like it ...

Precioimplantes

Jajaja, this post is hilarious, thanks so much for sharing.
Keratina para el cabello -
Implantes dentales precios -
Alarmas domiciliarias -
How much do lawyers make -
Tratamiento keratina

Account Deleted

Many places and centers offer business and trade promotions to both buyers and supplier.What about the differences in skill intensities across industries? The job losses in the relatively unskilled-labor intensive battery industry should have little effect on the relatively skilled-labor intensive machinery
sexshop
sexyshop
sexshop online

Account Deleted

If you are pool,can u still be happy?Imagine,the rich person could buy the original headphones,but you need to buy from china

Dulce Maria Ávila Martin

Udinese’s biggest mistake is not to grasp the opportunities created itself. Regardless of how the game, because it was the first home game of the season, the inter fans to Spanish benitez says a maximum support. The huge banners north bank is Spanish. Ejercicios Para Bajar De Peso En Casa

Danis Walker

i never see this type of article ever before on economics very nice clarification.
essay help|essay writing help|uk essay writing

Account Deleted

Very great post! thanks for sharing.
IMPOTENCIA MASCULINA
Lipoescultura Precios

Account Deleted

Man, will never forget this post. Thanks.
implantes dentales precios

Account Deleted

Excellent graphics very useful. Thanks
Cesped Artificial Precios

Account Deleted

Thanks for the informative writing. Would mind updating some good tips about it. I still wait your next place. ;)

organic seo service

Guillermo García


This is great article!

Account Deleted

electricity rates sydney


Hello Dani. It's batter to be poor but happy than rich but lonely. Money can't buy happiness anyway. BUt it would be best if you are rich and happy.

Account Deleted

hair salon furniture


Hi Dani. I prefer to be both. It only takes hard work, dedication and a positive attitude to attain both happiness and wealth.

Account Deleted

recover powerpoint file

Good Post.It's really helpful & interesting

Account Deleted

we offer is excellent term papers within few hours with minimum requirements as our experts writers make a large number of peak value study papers and have get access to both to personal libraries and archives.

Professional Paper Writing

Account Deleted

Would mind updating some good tips about it. Thanks for the informative writing. rss feed submission

Jacky

Frankly speaking, the connection of happiness is to do with your mindset and desire, as if you are poor yet if you are hardworking and dedicated with positive attitude then it will make everyone happy but if we are not positive even being wealthy won’t mean much. I trade through OctaFX and under them, it’s all very cool for me with small spreads, fast execution of deposit while there is a lot more, it’s all extremely good and helpful to help me with happiness.

The comments to this entry are closed.