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June 06, 2009

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Sohaib

Asim,

Though i agree with you when you talk about the "Madressah Myth" i believe your data source i.e., National Education Census 2005 does not take into account the large number of unregistered madressas in the country. In your paper you quoted an intelligence report presented to the cabinet which put the number of unregistered madressas at 25,000 (1992). The 90s was the decade when the Taliban were in power in Afghanistan and it had a spill-over effect on the bordering areas of Pakistan, along the Durand line in NWFP and Balochistan. And that probably seeped into Punjab and Sindh gradually. So that 25,000 looks a bit low in my opinion.

I wonder how much of a surge the 1.3% would see if you incorporate the "unregistered" madressas presumably not covered by the census. I personally believe that though the hoopla surrounding the role played by madressas in media has been a bit exaggerated in the past, the 1.3% is a tad too small a figure.

The former government was in the process of "registering" madressas and "enlighten their curriculum" but i doubt those efforts have born any fruit.

Once again, i agree with your argument, and am looking forward to see your work covered in the Pakistani media.

-SS

Joe. J.

The madrassa myth is busted, perhaps. But if one accepts the need for secular education, 165 madrassas in Swat valley is still a matter of concern.

But it seems, ironically perhaps, that Pakistan has for some time already (even prior to the current anti-Taliban initiative) been tightening controls over Madrassas much more rigorously than its neighbor India - any Indian government would find it hard to exert greater control over madrassas for fear of hurting Muslim sensitivities. In India therefore Muslim bodies should play a greater role in this regard.

Richard Woodward

I recommend a great book on one person's contribution to the Pakistan private school movement: Three Cups of Tea, by Greg Mortenson and David Olier Relin.

SS

Dani,

In about 2004 the Pentagon faced with the issue of reforming Pakistani schools as part of a massive aid plan came to USAID after purchasing several thousand World Space (now- First Voice digital radios). These radios could pick up the World Space satellite signal which can be heard clearly over all of South Asia. They wanted USAID to prepare educational programs in Urdu and Pashtun which could supplement in school teaching, especially where teachers were poorly trained. USAID for what I believe were largely bureaucratic reasons of turf refused, although distance-learning via radio is well documented in raising test scores and educational performance.

The story is documented in the book I co-authored Radio: A Post Nine-Eleven Strategy for Reaching The World's Poor, University Press of America. This and other stories of radios effective use in development along with its current neglect by the World Bank and others are documented in the book. I would be happy to send you a courtesy copy if you are interested, as I feel the possibility of radio extension in basic education, health, agriculture, business development and other fields has enormous untapped potential to aid the poor.

Sincerely

Saleem H. Ali

Unfortunately Asim and colleagues are really missing the trees for the forest. As someone who has studied madrassas for the past five years and published a book on this topic recently, I am quite alarmed by this continuing narrative from Asim who I respect greatly. appear to be functioning with two rather errant premises:

a) that the absolute number of madrassas is somehow an indicator of conflict development

b) that private schools can somehow drain out the madrassa students and the institution of madrassas will then just wither away.

I am also alarmed that the authors refuse to consider that almost all of the recent suicide bombings in this year have been carried out by madrassa students (I am basing this on interviews I conducted recently in Lahore with police personnel). The claims of madrassa linkage to violence are thus not "unsupported," but frighteningly real. Must we forget the Red mosque episode in Islamabad only two years ago? (that was a madrassa as well).

However, I have not given up on madrassas as an institution and feel that they can indeed be reformed internally as I have tried to provide evidence for in terms of madrassas in other Muslim countries.

Sadly this is an example of using quantitative research erroneously to suggest policy change without having clear ethnographic familiarity with the situation.

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jeet

I did not understand what are you calling as myth ?

The claim that madarassas are fuelling terrorism or the claim that madarassas numbers are on rise ?

I beleive you have completely debunked latter claim, but the former claim just can not be disapproved because only 1.5% students go to madarassas.

Saying smaller number of madarassa student will not matter is like saying NGOs dont matter.

Very unfortunately, some of the religious schools produce, brain washed and motivated in wrong direction kind of people.
There small number doesnt reduce their capability to harm.

Do you have stats that talk about a critical number of people required to damage the social fabric ? (For better or for worse that is.)

Jordyn Leo

The earlier comment about the book Three cups of tea is something i would like to comment on. This book ruins everything that greg mortenson went through with the children of pakistan. IT is a horrible representation of one man doing things that he stands so proudly behind. The book is not well written what so ever, it does not protray mortenson in the light that he deserves to be in. In fact i know for a fact :] that greg does not even talk to the author David Relin any more after the publising of the book and the horrible presentation of his story. It is reassuring that Mrotenson realizes the quality of the book. Madrassas are barely mentioned in the book maybe in one of the chapters of the run on story line. The book is too long and too informative we are trying to learn about one mans beliefs not every name of everyone he meets and all the conflicts of the middle east. Yet some of this information is helpful. most is not. I hope if you have read this book or ever have the chance to read it you agree with my stand point.

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Reforms focused on madrassas will not win over the Pakistanis or constructively improve their lives, it's true. There must be a whole new approach.

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I'm sure there are more madrassa in Pakistan than what you mention in here. How come Taliban not used madrassa to teach their students? And when Taliban is in engage, surely madrassa is the main source of education for the people of Pakistan. I'm not quiet agree with some comments that link between madrassa with bomb and terror. Not all madrassa like that. A lot of madrassa I know, always teach their students to be polite and bring peace. They teach about Jihad is not about bombing and do some terror.

sansreligion

@asim
I dont know what definition they use for 'Madrassah" because i think each Mosque in Pakistan is a "Madrassah" as it imparts fundamentalism and people sent their children to mosques for reading Quran or for learning it by heart. Even if they counted 50% of the mosques as Madrassahs there results would not be the same.
Moreover, more than 70 percent of the Talibans were from madrassa located in Pakistan. Even Mullah Omar is a student of Madrassah run by Maulana Fazl ur Rehman.
I suggest that they must redefine their sample and developed a realistiv criteria for a "madrassah"

Angelina

Interesting but I have to agree Sohaib, the data used and presented did not capture a reliable chunk for a vivid conclusion on the madrassa myth.

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While one may conjecture that the madrassa myth persists since it is politically expedient and offers a simple explanation of recent events in Pakistan, the fact is that the the reality of the Pakistani educational landscape is quite different.

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