« This just in... | Main | More on immigration (and some of my colleagues) »

May 20, 2007

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d8341c891753ef00d8357a794469e2

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference The New York Times gets it wrong on immigration:

Comments

Raphael Cunha

Dear Professor Rodrik,

In the latest issue of the Journal of Public Policy there's a paper by Paolo Liberati entitled "Trade Openness, Capital Openness and Government Size", which finds that "the compensation hypothesis originally proposed by Rodrik (1998) (...) is not in general supported by the data."

I thought you might want to take a look.

Regards,
Raphael

jbou

What about including some sort of wage requirements for guest workers? Will employers have to pay them the minimum wage?

Can unions organize the guest workers? It would be a nice thing to see an empowered guest worker return to his or her home country and organize a union their.

jerry

has been a Republican mantra, motivated by the thinly disguised impulse to limit the number of workers, Latinos mostly, doing the jobs Americans find most distasteful.

Um, given what limited supply does to prices, why do I feel this is absolutely NOT the Republican motivation.

I am not sure what the canonical liberal argument against a temporary worker program is. I am not saying I am for one, or not a liberal, I just don't know the canonical argument.

I do think temporary has to be temporary as in, absolutely temporary, and a year to two years without possibility of extension.

My concern, and I don't know how realistic it is, is to avoid what apparently has happened in France and elsewhere in Europe where guest workers can apparently stay, and be exploited, for years. It turns thanks for the employment into exploitation, resentment, and class warfare.

Ruben Martinez

Could temporary workers really apply what they have learn during thoese 6 years when they get back home? Are they going to be able to give the best use posible to the savings they made during temorary work? For that to be true I think things have to change in home country as well.

dissent

I think we should open our country to unskilled immigration when, and only when, there is so much upwards pressure on wages for the unskilled that it is clear that there is a worker shortage.

We have far too many throwaways as it is: poorly educated, people out of prison, etc. Employers would much rather hire docile non-english speakers who are illegal than people who have been trampled by American capitalism.

Until we get to the point of clear upwards pressure on wages, fierce employer sanctions.

Same thing for H1B.

Only a fool would believe the politicians on this amnesty for 12 million - last time it was amnesty for 3 million, and that was supposed to be the end of it. Fool me once, shame on me: won't get fooled again.

Dan Hirschman

One fundamental problem (in my mind) is a complete lack of discussion about the purpose of immigration policy. Is it a component of development policy and foreign aid? Foreign policy (ala refugees from communist nations)? Domestic economic policy? What do we want the country to look like in 10, 20 or 50 years?
Not only is there no consensus on the above issues, there is very little discussion. Most of the immigration debate takes place in a funny sort of middle ground, battling over details and not ideals.
If you conceptualize migrant workers as a source of new Americans (both themselves and their children), then punitive restrictions seem like a part of class warfare, as the NYT analyzes. If your focus is on development in Latin America, Asia or Africa, then you are asking an entirely different question. Unfortunately, that question is even harder to pose in the modern political era.

So it goes.

Tino

“exploitation”

I see that the NYT and your readers put Marxist clichés ahead of common sense.

How exactly are immigrants to France, a large portion that live of welfare, “exploited” by the French? If you tax French workers and give the money to Arabs not to work, who is being exploited?

Obviously the same applies to unskilled Hispanic workers today. They do marginal jobs (not particularly productive) jobs that pay little, and thus pay little taxes. Meanwhile they and their kin receive a lot of tax funded welfare programs and social services. The net cost is according to all serious studies quite negative to native Americans.

Again, who is exploiting whom?

The labor market effects of unskilled labor are:

1. Medium sized benefits for middle class and rich Americans (lower price of unskilled labor)

2. Enormous benefits to immigrants

3. Small to medium negative effect for unskilled Americans

The public sector effect through tax financed services and benefits cause:

1. Again huge, H U G E gains for Latinos, in the hundreds of billions of dollars per yea.

2. Equally or larger costs for Americans tax payers, and potential receivers of services and benefits.

No one can for one second deny that the sum of the two effects is benefits for immigrants and costs for both skilled and unskilled Americans. With a temporary program that limits eligibility of the workers and kin to benefits it is at least possible to benefit Latinos and skilled Americans. I honesty can’t see how unskilled Americans could EVER benefit from Hispanic immigration. So who exactly does the NYT represent?

Of course, the actual temporary program that the idiots in the Senate are proposing is not likely to be temporary. It is mainly obfuscation. The workers are allowed to bring their spouse and children. If they “happen” to have children once they come to America the child automatically becomes a citizen, and thus an anchor for the rest of the family. Of course even without this it is unimaginable that congress in 10-15 years would deny these workers amnesty as well, given that they are now giving law breakers amnesty.

Oh well. At least the left can no longer claim with an honest face that they are genuinely driven by concern for poor Americans, rather than ideological dislike for the rich.

Greg Sanders

I'm not particularly worried about guest workers that come and then do actually leave.

My worry is that I tend to associate guest worker programs with Europe and its problem with immigrant assimilation. On the other hand, I'm not sure that temporary guest workers that overstay their visas would be substantially different than any other kind of illegal immigrant. So maybe my fears aren't justified.

Zathras

A factor in my thinking about the concept of a temporary worker program is the fact that some considerable number of immigrants have always returned to the countries from which they came at every point in our history.

This is neither a good or bad thing, in and of itself. People who come to the United States and later choose to leave have historically done so for all sorts of reasons: family, religion, discrimination here, improvements in the lands of their birth. Many of these reasons are beyond our control or that of our government. What is in our control is the legal status of people who come to work in the United States but do not intend to stay here forever.

I'll reserve judgment on the temporary worker program agreed to by the group of administration officials and Congressional negotiators until I see it in legislative language. But with the concept of a guest worker program I have no problem at all.

Steve Sailer

How many people live in countries with lower average per capita GDP's than Mexico's?

Five billion.

Anmerican immigration policy can't possibly have more than a negligible effect on the average standard of living of those five billion people. What can make them better off is fundamental reform in their own country, as in China after 1978 and India after 1991. However, countries that export a large proportion of their discontented to America, such as Mexico, Philippines, and El Salvador, are notoriously resistant to fundamental reforms at home, in part because America provides a safety valve for the ruling class to bleed off discontent.

Jasper

"And the temporariness is a good thing, not a bad thing: it allows others to take advantage of the same opportunity, and it enables home countries to benefit from the newly acquired skills and resources of the returnees."

Professor: Why is "temporariness" necessary to allow "others" to take advantage of the opportunities available in the US or other developed countries? I don't understand your point. If, instead of a strictly temporary guest worker program, the US simply decided to hand out, say, 500k non-temporary work permits annually to Mexicans (and allowed them the right to eventually apply for permanent residency) -- if, in other words, the US simply permitted economic migrants to immigrate permanently -- how would this prevent "others" from being able to do so? The fact that the Unites States allowed (say) 125,000 Italians to permanently settle in 1903 didn't prevent another 125,000 Italians from doing so in 1911.

As for **forcing** such people to return, I think it smacks much too mightily of coercion. Yes, I can imagine how the returnees might bring benefits to their home countries, but I can also imagine that many of them, after putting down roots in their new country, would find it most unjust to be forced to return against their wills. I would much prefer we simply pay work permit holders from poor countries to return home. Perhaps such people could be given the choice: they'd have the right to apply for a green card after a successful number of years of residency in the US with a work permit -- but there would be a fairly substantial application fee involved. If they decided to forgo applying for a green card, not only would they not have to pay the application fee, they'd receive a substantial cash incentive (say, $30,000) to return home.

kharris

Absorb skill to take home with them by "doing the jobs Americans find most distasteful"? I don't believe Mexico needs more busboys or gardeners or maids.

I also don't think much of the constant reference to "jobs Americans won't do" or its watered-down substitute "jobs Americans find most distasteful." These are jobs that pay little and require little skill. If immigrant labor were not there to bus our tables, the wage would go up. Distasteful? Horesefeathers. These are low wage jobs that would become higher wage jobs in the absence of immigrants. Certainly, there are US citizens who are willing to put up houses and wire them.

Immigration Attorney

The New York Times gets a shocking amount of stuff wrong, one of the main reasons I've stopped reading it.

rado watches

Why is everyone just montblanc watches willing to accept power cuts? Don't you think that patek philippe watches having continious power is your right? If people aren't going to demand rado watches 24X7 power, don't expect anything zenith watches to change. The government needs to look at other sources parmigiani watches of power generation. The only solution is more power panerai watches production. Nothing less.
http://www.watchvisa.com/montblanc-watches.html
http://www.watchvisa.com/patek_philippe-watches.html
http://www.watchvisa.com/rado-watches.html
http://www.watchvisa.com/tudor-watches.html

rolex watches

People usually say :"Seeing is believing." http://www.tt88times.com
Each attempt has a corresponding gain, in part or obvious, or vague. At least we have the kind of satisfaction After I bought this watch ,in a sense,it means a great deal to me. http://www.fashionhairfu.com

tiffany jewelry

At present this season's jewelry,but nowadays one of personal adornment first!

Bell & Ross

This article is written in,I was looking for the information.Thank you and your share this articl at here

replica handbags

So, some tip about this issue are welcome and really sorry if my question is very simple. Thanks in advance

DVD Ripper

I like this article, this article that i learned a lot of knowledge.

DVD to iPod

He is quite a good reading. i'd appreciate it. time to realize his.

DVD to iPod

Was very meaty. it was wonderful. let me good bold breadth of vision.

it's nice. i'll is your regular caller. this is surely.

DVD to AVI

Is really functional. it fits me well. thanks for sharing. i will be used to visit.

DVD to MP4

Was very meaty. it was wonderful. let me good bold breadth of vision. it's nice. i'll is your regular caller. this is surely.

Monogram Multicolore

Argentina is a very good real life example. In March 2006, the Peronist government of Argentina suddenly prohibited exports of beef. The announced purpose, to reduce the price of beef to the Argentinian consumer, and assure a good supply of this all important commodity to the Argentine voter.

mbt shoes

I am a senior student too, I Love this post as i love study english, This article is to my feelings, thanks for your sharing, hoping to see more useful content.

grow taller

So, some tip about this issue are welcome and really sorry if my question is very simple. Thanks in advance

neverfull

all depends on attitude! ...Attitude makes altitude. ...Attitude is everything. ...

scoremore

immigrants are being detained and deported without access to due process and a fair day in court...

Finpecia

Thank you for sharing to us.
Please one more post about that..

Dubai Offers

Latest Dubai offers belong to almost all industrial and trading sectors e.g. cell phones, clothes and apparels, cosmetics, automobiles, groceries and confectioneries, several food items, building materials, insurance & banking sectors, jewelries etc.

w.a.

why you think that temporary working program is a good choise? you have 15 - 20 % of unemployement and you hair the strainger workers! put your people to work and stop pay the unworking people! if someone don't want to work so let him die! till he goes to work somewhere

Account Deleted

Wow, nice post,there are many person searching about that now they will find enough resources by your post
Generic Viagra

Account Deleted

Thanks for your opinion. I totally agree with it.I like buy cheap designer handbags at http://www.mybestbags.com as well and someone is looking for cheap coach handbags

Account Deleted

Great information, you have a wonderful blog and an excellent article!!
Regards,
Generic Viagra

Account Deleted

Hola,
Realmente buen trabajo, hay muchas personas en busca de eso ahora van a encontrar suficientes fuentes por tus consejos.
También se espera para más consejos acerca de que,
Regards, メファキン

Account Deleted

hey buddy,this is one of the best posts that I’ve ever seen; you may include some more ideas in the same theme. I’m still waiting for some interesting thoughts from your side in your next post.
Generic Viagra

Account Deleted

China Wholesale Beads The underclass that the NYT talks about are millions of workers from developing nations who would love to have the opportunity to work in the U.S., even if for a temporary program.

Account Deleted

Nice information provided here which is very useful to everyone...I am not a huge fan of this side, there do seem to be a lot these days...thanks for posting...horse riding

Account Deleted

Nice post. This post is different from what I read on most blog. And it have so many valuable things to learn.Thank you for your sharing!
laptops in lahore

Account Deleted

Hie primum ipsum visitabo hic. Ita multi inveni in vasa interesting maxime Weblog eius discussionem. Tons de tuis commentationes articles, suspicor non sum solus omnem habens fructum praesens est! sustine bonos vsus.
Regards,
Ports Automation

Account Deleted

Skönt att vara besöka din blogg igen, har det varit månader för mig. Väl här artikeln som jag har väntat så länge. Jag behöver den här artikeln för att slutföra mitt uppdrag i kollegiet, och den har samma tema med din artikel. Tack, bra aktie.
Generic Tadalafil |
http://www.bellspharmacy.com/maincategory/8/generic-tadalafil.html

Account Deleted

Raf
raf

Thaks for comment.

Account Deleted

Raf
raf

Thanks to you ...

Account Deleted

Awesome site! You’ve some quite interesting posts.. Nice background too haha. Keep up the nice work, Ill make sure to come across and find out really your page!
Basel hotels

Account Deleted

Raf
raf

Thanks for this ...

Account Deleted

I have wanted to learn more about particular topics, but not many websites would help me out in informing me the way I expected. This left me with many question, but after reading your article, I got an answer to all my questions. You are too cool dude!!!

Regards,
Generic Drugs Exporter

Account Deleted

Nice to be visiting your blog again, it has been months for me. Well this article that I've been waited for so long. I need this article to complete my assignment in the college, and it has same topic with your article. Thanks, great share.
http://www.bellspharmacy.com/category/43/atarax.html

Account Deleted

Thank you for sharing to us
Thank you for sharing to us.
Please one more post about that..
http://www.onlinemedicalstore.net/allergy-lioresal-baclofen-c-1_26

Account Deleted

Many places and centers offer business and trade promotions to both buyers and supplier
sexshop

Account Deleted

Thanks for sharing your article. I really enjoyed it. I put a link to my site to here so other people can read it
sexyshop

Account Deleted

What about the differences in skill intensities across industries? The job losses in the relatively unskilled-labor intensive battery industry should have little effect on the relatively skilled-labor intensive machinery
sexshop online

Account Deleted

Thanks to a brilliant effort in publishing your article. One can be more informative as this. There are many things I can know only after reading your wonderful article.


organic seo service

Account Deleted

Thank you for this helpful stuff I got at your site. The stuff here is really good and keep up sharing.

Account Deleted

powerpoint recover

Great article. Thanks for sharing information with us, this blog is very interesting,

Account Deleted


Awesome, Very interesting issue that after a very successful. Nicely written article good work ! Thanks for the great piece of sharing. Enjoy to read your write . Thanks a lot
Creating History Together With ArenaBetting Piala Eropa 2012 http://seotoolinfo.com/2012/06/creating-history-creating-history-together-with-arenabetting-piala-eropa-2012/
Agenliga Sebagai Agen Bola Online Untuk Euro 2012 http://seotoolinfo.com/2012/06/agenliga-agenliga-com-sebagai-agen-bola-online-untuk-euro-2012/

Account Deleted

wesome, Very interesting issue that after a very successful. Nicely written article good work ! Thanks for the great piece of sharing. Enjoy to read your write . Thanks a lot
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LUSiEkDPBtU/UAwsxZ2NG7I/AAAAAAAAAn4/Nih7ouhx3gY/s320/Bavetline%2BAgen%2BJudi%2BBola%2BTerpercaya.jpg

Bavetline Agen Judi Bola Terpercaya

The comments to this entry are closed.